CIO Leadership Live Australia with Nicola Dorling, Group Chief Information Officer, Downer

Cathy O’Sullivan  00:05
Hello. Welcome to CIO Leadership Live Australia. I’m Cathy O’Sullivan, editorial director for Foundry in Australia and New Zealand. And today, I’m delighted to be joined by one of our CIO50 alumni for Australia, Nicola Dorling, who is the Group Chief Information Officer for Downer. Welcome to the show, Nicola. Thanks for joining me today.
 
Nicola Dorling  00:29
Thanks, Cathy. I’m very much looking forward to this.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  00:32
Excellent and listen, I hope 2025 is off to a good start for you. I know you’ve achieved a lot so in the last year or so but before we get into that, would really love to hear about your own start in technology, how you started your career, and what have been some of the highlights to date?
 
Nicola Dorling  00:52
Yeah so obviously, Cathy and I were talking about this just before we came online, and she said she always likes to hear about how people got into technology roles. I started my role in technology, first of all as a group CFO. So I was a CFO of a number of ASX listed organizations, and one of them being GrainCorp. And in that organization, we transformed the business. We created a fully integrated commodity management trading system integrated to SAP. So that was my first push into technology, utilizing technology to streamline the process, the data, the way that the people were working, and have it fully integrated into a full stack solution. And so that’s where I really got interested in technology. And then over the years, I focused on major technology transformation programs such as New South Wales Government equip program, Sydney trains, enterprise asset management program, and then multiple other digital transformation programs for engineering and operators and maintainers such as Downer. And while I was obviously driving my career as a CIO,  I went back to school to get some additional qualifications, and I also teach digital strategy and leading with digital technology at AGSM.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  02:20
So interesting that you’ve had that that start as a CFO, because that role and the CIO-CFO role is also so such a fundamental relationship, so great that you have that view as well coming from that finance background. So look, you’re now at Downer, Nicola, so can you give us a bit of an overview of Downer as an organization and what you and your team are responsible for.
 
Nicola Dorling  02:46
Yeah, so Downer is a large organization. We have over 30,000 people at any one given time, and we design, build and sustain infrastructure assets and the facilities assets across Australia and New Zealand. So on any given day, we can be supporting the cleaning in a hospital, or we can be operating and maintaining the road networks that we have in Australia and New Zealand. So no one day’s the same, I think, is probably the first thing that I would say. So what do my team do? My team across the whole business support all of the run technology for all of the business units. We have heads of IT that report to me in each of the business units, and we also support the strategic programs of work. So anywhere where we think we can utilize innovation to make it more seamless for our customers to do business with them. We focus on on supporting the design and build an implementation of all of those as well. So it’s a really great team. We get to do everything from strategy, build, deployment and run and so we get to learn a lot about all the different businesses and what they need to be more efficient for their customers.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  03:59
So speaking of strategy, then, how do you align that overall IT strategy for such a diverse organization with the overall business strategy of Downer?
 
Nicola Dorling  04:11
Yeah so as any company would do, we align to the Downer corporate strategy. So the Downer Digital strategy has got three overarching pillars and 12 strategic programs of work. And those 12 strategic programs of work align to the business unit strategies as well. So basically, everything that we do in the Downer Digital strategy is delivering for the businesses and ultimately delivering against the Downer overall strategy. So the 12 programs of work are really focusing on areas where we want to move the needle, and they’ll usually focus on areas such as innovation, such as digital twins for some of our customers, or it could be an AI solution that’s supporting safety on one of our road customers. And the 12 programs also support as how we uplift our middle office and so where we’re looking to get better at utilizing the data that we’ve got in our organization to make decisions. And then we’ve got a number of foundational programs of work that are looking at uplifting our infrastructure, making sure that we’ve got flexibility in our cloud solutions.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  05:22
So you mentioned some of the big projects there. So tell us more about how that digital journey is tracking. What have been some of those big projects that you and the team have been driving.
 
Nicola Dorling  05:34
Yeah. So first of all, when we are kind of driving our digital journey, the most important thing for us is to be with our business. So we spend a lot of time working with our business on their customer journey. So how are they doing their work on a daily basis for their customers? So if you are working in our asset management business, what do you do from the minute that you wake up to the time when you’ve delivered to your customer and you go home? So we map out all those journeys, and we understand across those journeys, if they’ve got any pain points for our employees, but also our customers, we really try and understand what technologies they’re using today. Are they disconnected? Do they need an uplift. And then once we’ve got that really good picture of our journeys, then we’re able to then say, right, how do we actually uplift the technology to make sure that it’s actually going to deliver what our customers want? So an example of that in our New Zealand business, we focused on delivering a safety vision tool that we partnered with Rush Digital. And this tool basically uses image recognition to understand where anybody is at any one point on a site, and then the data from these image recognition tools actually enable our site managers to be able to predict the best way for people to come on site and to keep the site safe. So it’s a proactive way of managing people on site, but also managing our safety outcomes.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  07:05
Yeah, a real world example, there of AI in action for good. So tell us do you see any other use cases for AI in your business?
 
Nicola Dorling  07:14
Ah, there’s, there’s lots of use cases in in our business. We’re an asset management business, as you know, and so we are often looking at the existing condition of assets and then working out how we need to maintain them so that the public can still use them. So another one of our innovations has been a solution called Fault IQ, which uses an off the shelf  detection products. So in down a digital we don’t always necessarily need to build everything ourselves. We will use something off the shelf if we can, if we can get hold of it, and then we’ve configured it to our database of an understanding of all of the different faults that we find as we’re working on our road corridors. So what that means is that we’ve got all of this historical data on faults across roads, and the historical data, in conjunction with the AI, can then predict whether there will be any faults in the future along these rail corridors. This solution basically revolutionizes the performance of the rail corridor because it transforms the inspection process. It gives our operators and our maintainers the ability to identify faults quickly, but also to be able to take photos of any of the faults in real time and then get them off to the operator so they can do something with it. So we’re utilizing that and that AI to basically really forecast out, you know, faults in the future, but also manage the here and now.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  08:52
Yeah, so fascinating the examples that you have there for for AI in the business, and I’m sure there’ll be many more in years to come. So look, Nicola, really keen to understand, you know, how do you demonstrate the value of what your team delivers to the wider group? How do you get exec and board buy in for what you want to drive in the business? And how do you really, I guess, showcase the value that your team delivers to the group.
 
Nicola Dorling  09:22
Yeah. So in Downer Digtial –  that’s what we branded the technology department – for us, it’s really about creating business outcomes for our customers, so they’re our ultimate priority. So when we’re working with the business, it’s really on those strategic projects are actually going to deliver value, and so we’re constantly working with our business people saying, right, how do you run your processes today? Where are they effective? Where are they not as effective? How can we use technology to be able to streamline that process for you, but also enable you to undertake your work with a mobile solution? So don’t have to come off site, or you might be in a rail corridor or a road corridor, and we can give you information at your hands so that you can actually undertake your job in real time. You don’t have to go back to depots to input data. So for us, those types of things create efficiency, but I think also for the board, when we’re when we’re obviously aiming to get by. And from the board, it’s about having a clear strategy, and that the businesses have obviously endorsed, that it’s really clear on what the strategic programs are doing and how they’re actually driving the digital transformation. And then for the board, they’re really interested in making sure we’ve got the appropriate governance structures and frameworks around both the approval of the projects, the design and build, and then monitoring the delivery of those projects through that life cycle.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  10:49
You mentioned earlier, Nicola that you can’t do everything yourself and your team can’t be responsible for everything, and the importance of partners. So tell us more about how partners the role they play in your IT strategy. And how do you decide when there are so many vendors and so many different partners out there, how do you decide who you’re going to partner with, and what kind of value do they deliver? From your perspective?
 
Nicola Dorling  11:16
Yeah, we have a lot of strategic partners at Downer, obviously being the size that we are, and in the strategic partner vendor relationships that we have, we’re really clear with each of our vendors on what their vendor strategy is. So for example, in our middle office, where we’ve got a lot of our ERP technologies, we are supported, not around the clock, but extended hours of support with some of our outsource providers, and when we go into the front office, and we often have smaller vendors that are actually supporting us with some really bespoke, innovative tooling that is supporting us to be able to deliver to our customers. So there’s lots of vendors in Downer that are helping us deliver technology, and there’s some at a large scale and supporting infrastructure, networks and things such as that. And then, as I said, we’ve got the innovative partners that are probably smaller vendors, but still deliver just as much value.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  12:21
And then it’s always a juggle but how do you balance dealing with the immediate business needs, legacy tech, how do you balance that with a push for longer term innovation?
 
Nicola Dorling  12:33
Ah this one is in my in my mind, this one’s always a challenge in an organization like Downer, obviously, we’ve got four business units and around 25 lines of business. So you can imagine, over the years, there’s been a lot of technology that’s been purchased to undertake and delivery of work, which means we’ve got, you know, legacy technology throughout our business. For me, I’d say the answer is it needs to be a balance. You need to understand, you know, what legacy technology you’ve got, why you’ve got it, and how long you might need it for. You absolutely need to be pursuing innovation, but you’ve got to get your technology stack right. So for us, it’s really focusing on simplifying our technology stack, getting our foundations right, having one place to have all of our data across all of our business units. And I think once you start to get the foundations and the stack right, then when you want to start focusing on innovation or decommissioning of legacy, it makes it easier, because your stack is more robust.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  13:39
And looking at the shiny new things, are there any emerging technologies or trends in the construction engineering space that you’re particularly excited to explore at Downer?
 
Nicola Dorling  13:51
Oh, my goodness, there’s a lot. So, I mean, obviously I just mentioned Fault IQ, and then we’ve got a lot of AI enabled safety solutions, which I think is really important in our industry and others, are things such as digital twins, so supporting the asset management life cycle, looking at condition monitoring of asset condition today, and then using historical data to predict asset condition in the future, and that helps organizations such as ours predict what work orders need to be in the future, which helps us to work with our customers on the demand planning of those work orders and also and the supply planning of the resources. I think ultimately, when we say, well, what is the value to the customers on that? The value is that we can really help them to really optimize their operating and capital budgets by getting more tailored programs that really suit their businesses.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  14:52
Now a good CIO is only as good as their team, so tell us about your approach to getting the best out of  the downer digital team. What are some ways that you look to build and maintain a good team culture there?
 
Nicola Dorling  15:07
Yeah sure. So we lead our team in Downer, and you can probably can see it behind me – and it’s called The Downer Difference. So in Downer Digital we always like to change things up a little bit, so we’re calling it the Downer Digital Difference. And we really have kind of three areas of that. It’s ‘Own It’. So we want people to own whatever they’re delivering to Downer and but also their own career. ‘Do it. So what are you doing? And make sure that you get it completed, and then ‘Be the Difference’. So everything that we do, we want to be the difference. We want to show that we can do something great, that’s going to really deliver difference and value to everybody. We want our team to own it collectively, and we want to do it and really, really deliver for the business. And so what we do in my team on a monthly basis, we have an all hands. There’s usually around four to 500 people on that all hands at any given time. Then we ask our teams to constantly give examples of how they’re livingThe Downer Difference values. The team meeting that we have is is monthly, as I said, and it’s a revolving chair so it could be anybody within our team. It doesn’t necessarily need to be the leadership team and those individuals own the agenda for that meeting. And what we found is that works really well, because it means that whoever is on the ground who wants to put something on the agenda gets the opportunity to set that agenda. Also for our teams, we spend a lot of time sharing knowledge and creating a culture of learning. So as you would know, we’ve got a lot of vendors, say some of our bigger vendors, Microsoft, Google and the like, and we spend a lot of time getting support from them with all of the different learning capabilities they share with us. And there’s a lot of support that they give us, obviously, with innovation thinking and also new technologies and the art of the possible and how that can be applied to our organization. So we spend a lot of time on that, and then we also structure kind of learning pathways for our more junior members of our team. So we’ve just recently joined the Co Op program at UNSW, and we’ll be getting some graduates from the IS and IT function from UNSW to join our team. So we’re getting really excited about that.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  17:28
I bet, growing the team with some some fresh new blood. I’m sure we’ll, uh, we’ll definitely add a new dynamic. So look Nicola, I’m really keen to hear you know, would you have any advice for people who are aspiring to be a CIO, particularly, I guess, women in technology who have that ambition to one day have a seat at the exec table?
 
Nicola Dorling  17:52
Yeah. And for me, I guess, obviously, I told you a little bit about my career at the beginning, starting as a CFO and moving into a CIO role. It depends where you start in your career. So you could have already taken a route where you’ve got a deep technical skill set, and then I think as you move forward in your career, it’s a given that you’re going to have the appropriate skill sets to be able to undertake the role. I think for me, it’s really about being inquisitive in the tools that can support you really drive a business forward from a transformation perspective, so things such as innovative tools, emerging technologies, data and analytics, cloud based solutions, they’re the things that we all need to know about, because they’re the things that make our organizations more efficient and effective and more flexible. And then for me, it’s always about mindset, so having a can do attitude and making sure that you can ask the right questions, that they’re practical, and that you can take the emerging technology, fancy, shiny ideas and think about, Well, how am I actually going to practically implement this? And I think for any women who want to come into the CIO world, we talk about this a lot. I mean, there’s just a lower rate of women in IT And so moving forward from STEM and pushing that is definitely something that I do, and I want to make sure that other CIOs do the same. But I think resilience is is a key to, you know, working in and in the IT industry, when you’re when you’re a female CIO, it really does give you that an extra oomph when you’ve got to make transformation decisions.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  19:41
So then what has been your biggest learning so far from from leading the Downer Digital team,
 
Nicola Dorling  19:48
um, leading Downer Digital team, so we’ve got, um, over, I’d say probably over, about 650 people in the team and and that’s including our vendors as well as our. War team. So there’s a lot of people with lots of different personalities, lots of different skill sets from many different cultures. And one of the key things that we’ve done over this last year is placing them in matrix teams, and so that we’ve got diversity of thought, and we’ve got diversity of the way in which we can get outcomes to projects. And I think for me, this has been an absolute game changer. And I and I honestly think that the teams are actually enjoying and working this way more. And so that’s something for me that I wish we’d probably done sooner, but, you know, we’ve done it now, and so, yeah, we’re really seeing the benefits from it.
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  20:39
So what are some of the big goals for 2025? What are you and the team focus on, and how do you sustain momentum?
 
Nicola Dorling  20:48
So the big goals for 2025 for us are continuing to think about customer innovation. So how can we really support our customers with emerging technology and predictive analytics. And for us, as I said before, in your question about legacy technology versus focusing on the new we’ve got a technology simplification program up and running, and that is purely about making sure that we’ve got the right technology in the stack. We’re uplifting our foundations so making sure that we’ve got the right infrastructure and security on our networks, and most importantly this year is focusing on our people, making sure that we’ve got the right people doing the right work, that they’re enjoying, they’re all learning from each other, and that we’re bringing more juniors into the team and who can learn from our more seniors, but also that we can learn from all of the great stuff that they’ve been learning at university and with the tech providers that give them so much support. So that’s really our focus. I think also one final point from me on Downer Digital, we’re just about to kick off our mentoring program, so that will start with Downer employees, but it’s definitely something Cathy that I’d like to look at whether we can extend that to working with the CIO Council to support
 
Cathy O’Sullivan  22:07
Wonderful Well, I look forward to catching up with you again about the initiatives and indeed, the mentoring program. Nicola Dorling, Group CIO for Downer. Thank you so much for joining us today.
 
Nicola Dorling  22:18
Thank you, Cathy.